Greetings,

In April, I will be heading over firstly to Germany (going to Bremen) and then will be popping over to London, and then to Manchester a bit later on.

Mostly work related.

My question is: what would you call "must-do" or "must-see" items in these locations? Most of the time will be in London, at a placed called "Hotel Russel" which I hope is as nice as it looks on the website .

Maybe I'll run into a fellow LFSF personality.

Cheers

Quote from Zac86 :

I never said the physics were bad I was just stating that I can't feel the grip coming back while correcting an oversteer situation.

The only real life racing experience I have is with AWD cars so I cant comment on how these RWD cars react to my inputs.

Don't worry, no you didn't say the physics were bad I know. But take MadCat's suggestion because earlier on people were scratching their heads since some people could slide around all day and some people couldn't save a slide worth a turd. It turns out that there are a few things in the AC and video card settings that make a massive difference for some reason in AC (never saw these issues in any other sim but what the hell - the solutions make a massive difference in AC).

Flip back some pages in this very thread and there's a link PMD (EDIT: the other Phil) posted to an AC thread explaining all the things you need to change and why, and there's a bunch of information in this thread as well if you look back. If I wasn't such a lazy SOB I'd go back and link you the pages but alas...

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 24 Jan 2014, 04:07.

Quote from PhilS13 :

Is it likely that the only difference between LFS and AC physics is down to the tires?

One would really hope so yes.

Quote :

Aren't the forces at the wheel hub are relatively easy to calculate for a programmer who wants that have that part properly done? A infinitely rigid body, infinitely rigid suspensions links with known geometry and mass at each corner, CG position, dampers and springs...it's a lot of work maybe but it's quite basic mathematics otherwise. Chassis or suspension flex is another game but I don't think we're there yet in both sims. I would bet any serious sim will get the same numbers at the wheel hub.

Ideally I think that would be right but I don't think it's the case. Too many strange things happen for example in iRacing - I have a hard time thinking cars rolling over in mundane conditions just has to do with tires. Would be interested to hear from someone knowledgeable on the subject (hello Ben or Todd?)

Quote from danielroelofs :

For me with AC it was the lack of how the car behaved from having grip that transforms to understeer and especially when elevation was involved. It felt like it didn't took much notice of the elevation changes except when there were steaper drops. It felt like the understeer was calculated in instead of occuring more naturally. I used a G27 btw.

This flip side to this however is that LFS appears to exaggerate grip changes during elevation transitions, and I always wondered if this was due to a load sensitivity issue (that showed it's head in other instances).

Though I'm almost at the opinion that this is trolling because AC is the only other sim that's ever felt as fluid, and non-mechanical as LFS / nKP.
When the LFS tire update eventually comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if it felt a lot like AC

AC is arcade - now I've heard it all.

I knew this would happen though, the whole setup issue is a bigger deal than most guys are realizing. Like Shotglass just said: a consumer road car with a mid engine layout - it's SUPPOSED to understeer. Remember the Clarkson video driving the Elise?

LFS was/is a great sim but that setup nonsense has created a silly mindset that road-cars would ever practically drive they way you can make them in LFS. One of the reasons I always supported that "showroom stock" option and flag for servers.

Quote from Matrixi :

I'd love to have fully tweakable setups on all cars like in LFS. They could be hardcoded to be unavailable for hotlapping and normal races, but I'd want to be allowed to mess around with the cars in the way that I want in practice mode or in multiplayer servers that allow it. After all, being able to setup your car like that takes nothing more than giving it a few racing parts that make it possible in real life.

There's no reason why we can't have our cake and eat it too when it comes to simulators. Not allowing all kinds of setups because physics reasons just means the physics engine should be improved so weird WR setups like in LFS wouldn't be so freaking fast.

In LFS there's still things you couldn't achieve like the gear ratios being way to adjustable. You might buy an after market set or two, same with a differential, but you won't have the options they have in LFS. So it's debatable whether that's sort of thing even belongs in a sim; at best it really ought to be offline only I think

Quote from Shotglass :

im rpetty sure the 1m has a suspension made out of cheese
it rolls into corner more than my moms bloody punto
one of the most fun cars ive ever driver in a sim (and yes that includes the raceabout)

Fixed!

I really like that post from Aris

One thing people on this forum will have to remember when criticizing AC car behaviour is that in LFS, the setup options were so outrageous that you could essentially make any car drive exactly how you would like.

I think that AC is exactly on target NOT letting people do that; look at the bizarre WR setups used in LFS - I'm glad we'll never be seeing that in AC.

I know right?

Quote from B2B@300 :

The tyres are definitely giving me more feel at the limit than the previous patch so I concur with your view above. The transition between grip and no grip is smoother and I felt like I could read the optimal slip angle better while driving than previously (not so hit an miss), also the car was a little more forgiving under brakes and acceleration as I can better read/feel lock-up and wheel spin with new patch.

Sums it up perfectly


:hihi:

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

If only my wheel wasn't packed up for another 2 weeks.

(You pack for that long before you move? Especially important things like your wheel?)

Quote from IsaacPrice :

Don't fuel his ego more pls, it took years of abuse in ineX for me to convince him he isn't the best driver in the history of the world

Phil: I take it back, you suck. Here's your fail award: :trophy_br

Quote from xaotik :

On that note, keep in mind if you are to report any AI issues to do so when using the predefined combo from special events. They're sort of "case studies" for the time being.

Indeed I assumed this much. Since it's not "official" I wouldn't bother reporting issues with combos they haven't "released". I'm just happy they left the hack in place, and didn't mess with Joux being compatible.

Update: the AI hack does still work. Select a challenge and then switch to Quick Race (maintains the grid - I like this about the AC UI, everything you do transfers to the "next" thing you do - brilliant) and choose any track you want and it works decently.

edit: and BS you're not an alien :rolleyes:

Quote from B2B@300 :

Damn you BBT know I have to go do a few HL at Imola to quench my curiosity

Curious what you think after you do.

I know that I tend to be positive about things (just how I live my life), but I was really pleasantly surprised tonight when I tried a few different cars (I did not try the little open wheeler, in fact I never have so I cannot comment).

The McLaren used to be quite razor edge, and I know it's SUPPOSED to be that way with the assists turned off per real life, but now it's still razor edge but you can be pre-emptive and drive the shit out of it without ever feeling like the car bit you for no reason - you really have to provoke it to spin now.

Hard to explain but the tires feel much less forgiving but much MORE forgiving at the same time somehow.

I'll have to try the 458 at Imola since I ran so many laps trying not to suck so bad, and see how that feels. But the fact that I shaved that much time off in 3 laps of basically fooling around in the McLaren tells me something. I feel a hell of a lot more confident in the cars now - I will never be as fast as Phil or anything but I sure don't have to be so careful with the cars now.

Quote from Shotglass :

does the new tyre physics change the weird reluctance that the cars have to get back in line after overtseering?

YES. 100%. This was the first thing I noticed.

Judas Priest I'm not sure how much better the tires can get now.

I hopped in the McLaren and beat my PB by over a second within 3 laps on the default setup

You can literally manhandle the crap out of it now, as well as everything else with one hand on the wheel.

And the 1M at Joux I think I have a new favourite car.

So much for "subtle" tire changes, I thought it was pretty damn good before but within 2 mins on this patch, grins are had ear to ear.

This deserves a celebratory Guinness.

And Dustin, you can use the standard hax to race the cars from the challenges on any track and it works (apparently, I've not tried).

Quote from Fordman :

What a fantastic line up....

(FIN)Eza, Asplii, Blas89, CarlLefrancois, chanoman315, ChristijaNL, cougar8, dawesdust_12, Dennis93, ferret, Fordman, fwj515, GAVD999, jjones, jug, kamo2000, keiran, Kid222, Kristi, lameduck, Litro, mbutcher, ORION, PMD9409, Racer X NZ, RadEd, RudiTurbo, spiderbait90, three_jump, WGooden, wildstyle, _Rob_

OMG even Jug is about...awesome

AAaand breezed right over, like a smooth martini.

Not that I raced a lot, but my LFSW stats aren't crap

I once made a few car (skins) out of food - chicken legs, burgers etc - that must be something... I think my XRT was mostly fruit?

Good point Tor; my mediocre performance is not my doing: I need my own setup engineer

I'd mostly likely try to make this work. Being on the wrong side of the pond might be an issue depending on what y'all decide. Just remember I need 2 weeks of practice

Very cool Rudi!

Is there a YT video of that iRacing final GP?

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Tristan, I've simraced for >10 years and never done anything to setups, nor understand anything other than making them terrible

Quote from farcar :

I'm kinda the same. Not much interest in setups therefore limited in knowledge. I'm happy just to enjoy driving (preferably in a car that doesn't need a lot of setting up). Either way I understand that I'll probably be slower than someone who puts in the hard work. Again, just like real life.

Yeah, I have to admit it's a time thing on my end.

From 2004 to 2008 I used to have a clue what basic setup adjustments did instinctively and now days if I sit and simply think what a certain thing should do (IE what if I lower the ARB front or rear), after a second or two I recall/work out what that would do.

My real issue with setups (read: why I'm not fast and find it difficult to work out why) is that to be totally honest, I drive the stock setup and have a hard time sorting out WHY the car won't go quicker the way I drive it.

What I mean is that by the time I learn the car, and the track enough to be remotely competitive, I've learned bad habits based on the stock setup and can drive THAT SETUP at a decent pace. But from that point I don't have the knack to figure out what trade-offs I could make to make a faster total lap. So even though I could work out what the basic things do, I'd sit there and ponder "well, I understeer here, but I oversteer there quite often... which one do I really need to fix and why?"

Then someone gives me a "fast" setup and it takes me a while to get back to where I was most of the time.

Back in the day when I drove every single night, I found it challenging but not overly difficult to get to 101% WR or 101.5%... But I did find it frustrating that the only way to do that was to DL the WR set (which was unrealistic to the point of being silly often times which I had to grin and bear) and drive enough laps to figure out the proper way to wrestle it around the track in barbaric fashion.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Wow.. cheers buddy, silly me I've always had you in my 'cool people on lfs forum' list.. I actually can't comprehend, how people find my posts as 'whining', baffles me lol. The length some of you go to prove some non-existing point, offend people etc, is astonishing.I ask, politely, if someone can drive a combo with default setup, to see how i compare with you, and for some reason i get abuse and rage lol.. this forum was much friendlier place.

I didn't see anything overtly wrath provoking in your posts in the last few pages but I suspect it's based on "past performance"

For what it's worth I do sort of understand what you're getting at.

However, if I ever get the gumption to actually put the effort in (as Tristan alluded to ) I know there's lots of resources to help me with it

Well done video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykTnZ0lWD04

Wyatt's last name is Gooden not Godden

Last I heard he went from iRacing to racing Jettas in real life, no idea after that. Pretty cool though.

Been following this forum since the RSC days myself... yikes.

Quote from kars19 :

They drive around the track and do nothing...

I think devs are wasting their time and energy with Ai. And who drives with Ai these days, gt/fm croud?

No matter how good and advanced they are. They don't give me any satisfaction , when i beat them or vice versa

Quote from farcar :

More people race against AI than you might think.
I get maybe a couple of hours a week at best, and that will usually be in short sessions of 30 minutes or so. There's no way I can be competitive online.
AI or just simply doing a few laps is where I get my enjoyment.
Nothing to do with being an arcade racer

^^ this.

I just don't have the time to put into sim racing "seriously" at the moment, so I take what I can get and I'd much rather have cars on the track to race with instead of being forced to race online when I don't want to. Until I have the time to maybe enter a league and/or team again, I probably won't venture online a whole lot even when MP is released, but I will most certainly use the AI regularly. And most of you would probably prefer that instead of me taking you out trying to out-brake myself

Also: does anyone know if the McLaren car uses the same TC / ESP systems as the real car? I thought I read somewhere that it does?

edit:
I didn't know this about the lighting at the tracks: "Advanced setup options and telemetry for data analysis; dynamic simulation of the tyre rubber deposited on track, depending on the car laps; an adjustable time of the day mode, featuring sun position calculated in realtime, depending by geographical coordinates of the track and by the sun curve according to time and date, in order to get the same light conditions of the real tracks!"
So the date must just be using the real date I suppose, I didn't see anywhere to "set" the date...

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Sun 5 Jan 2014, 21:02.

Judas Priest Phil.

Great pass, wow. If I was you I would rename it "racing video enema".

But seriously, that's excellent.

Of course, I can barely complete a pass without either driving like a grandma or smashing things, but nonetheless, that's very cool to watch - I hope Kunos and the community sees how much fun rallying is with great physics!

edit:
And here, we see, the early effects of mod-ability in a good sim. Listen, I'm not one to dwell and harp on the deficiencies of the LFS development model, but honestly, now that we have a fine sim that doesn't discourage and vehemently protect this sort of release, look how little time it took to have so much fun. This does leave me with food for thought wondering how much fun was wasted on years of LFS protectionism when the community was begging for the simple, simple opportunity to do what was done here with, so far, one ported track on an early access sim. Personally I see it as a great waste of time and opportunity, but this is all rapidly becoming a moot point as a culturally sensitive developer aims to deliver everything the community; which they've clearly been watching for years and actively listen & respond to, churns out much wanted hype, communication, licenses, content, physics, graphics, and the freedom to make what we want to make. It seems the niche sim-racing community is finally getting our holy grail

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 3 Jan 2014, 05:33.

Is there a list anywhere of what WIP AI and tracks/cars work reasonably well at this point?

Quote from sinbad :

Great fun crashing in all the same places as I did way back when with RBR. I was surprised how much of it I remembered, but then I realised I shouldn't expect to remember all of it no matter how much I drive it, since it would be both hard and impossible to do so.

Fixed.

Thanks Kegetys!

I wonder if any other RBR material might make it to the party???

what card?

and system? It's probably somewhere on the forum but I don't feel like looking